# Supabase 稱約七成新活動來自 AI agents：一個數字，三種口徑

> 📖 本站完整內容索引（documentation index）：[llms.txt](/llms.txt)

> 原作者：ycombinator (@ycombinator) · 策展與摘要：EasyVibeCoding · 平台：X (Twitter) · 熱度：🔥🔥🔥 · 日期：2026-11-01

> 原始來源：https://x.com/ycombinator/status/2116176659795825035

## 證據與延伸閱讀

- [# Supabase 稱約七成新活動來自 AI agents：一個數字，三種口徑](https://x.com/ycombinator/status/2116176659795825035) — 一手來源 · 最後核對：2026-11-01 · 支持主張：Y Combinator 貼文稱 Supabase 有 1,300 萬使用者、每週建立超過 100 萬個資料庫，約 70% 的新活動來自 agents；貼文未提供活動定義、衡量期間或計算方法。

## 證據透明度與公平評估

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## 中文摘要

# Supabase 稱約七成新活動來自 AI agents：一個數字，三種口徑

<!-- curated-overview:start -->
![三張同尺寸卡片列出使用者 1,300 萬、資料庫每週逾 100 萬、新活動約 70% 來自 agents，並註明活動口徑未定義。](https://pub-75d4fe1e4e80421b9ecb1245a7ae0d1a.r2.dev/curated/local-curation-v2/local-curation-selected-selected-24-26-20261101-01a194ae/supabase-agent-growth/v1/overview.png)
> Y Combinator 貼文列出的三項數字，代表不同口徑；卡片不按比例呈現。
<!-- curated-overview:end -->

Y Combinator 的貼文稱，Supabase 約 70% 的新活動來自 agents，並列出 1,300 萬使用者與每週逾 100 萬個新資料庫。這些數字描繪了 Supabase 所稱的成長規模，但各自代表不同指標；尤其「新活動」尚無明確定義，解讀時需要保留這項限制。

## 三個數字各自描述什麼

貼文把 Supabase 稱為 AI coding 時代常用的開源 Postgres 後端，並以三項數字介紹平台規模：1,300 萬名使用者、每週建立超過 100 萬個資料庫，以及約 70% 的新活動來自 agents。這些數字都是貼文轉述的說法，並非本文獨立核實的統計。

三項數字的單位不同：使用者數描述平台規模，每週建立的資料庫數描述一段期間內的新增量，而 70% 描述貼文所稱的新活動中來自 agents 的比例。貼文沒有說明這個比例是否以資料庫建立量計算，因此不能把它直接解讀為「每週新增資料庫中有七成由 agents 建立」。

![三張同尺寸卡片分列使用者 1,300 萬、資料庫每週逾 100 萬、新活動約 70% 來自 agents；頁腳註明活動口徑未定義且卡片不按比例呈現。](https://pub-75d4fe1e4e80421b9ecb1245a7ae0d1a.r2.dev/curated/local-curation-v2/local-curation-selected-selected-24-26-20261101-01a194ae/supabase-agent-growth/v1/inline-supabase-metrics-2026.png)

> Y Combinator 貼文所列的三項數字各有不同口徑；70% 的活動定義未提供。

Supabase 執行長 Paul Copplestone 受邀參與《The Light Cone》訪談；貼文列出的議題包括成長、個人化應用、個人資料庫、AI 採用與 agent-first 設計。貼文也把產品方向描述為：當 agents 代替開發者建構軟體時，Supabase 正圍繞這類新使用者調整自身。這呈現的是貼文對訪談和公司方向的摘要，不等同於已公布的產品變更清單。

## 70% 的分母仍不清楚

貼文沒有定義「新活動」指什麼、統計期間多長，或如何判定某項活動來自 agent。缺少這些條件，就無法判斷 70% 是使用者操作、資料庫建立、API 請求，還是其他活動的占比，也不能拿它和使用者總數或每週資料庫建立量直接比較。

這使 70% 成為一項值得追問的公司活動估計，而不是一個可單獨衡量 agent 採用程度的完整指標。若要比較不同時期或不同平台，至少需要一致的活動定義、時間範圍、分母，以及辨識 agent 活動的方法；目前這則貼文沒有提供這些資訊。

因此，這則消息能支持的結論有限：Y Combinator 貼文稱 Supabase 規模已達上述數字，並稱 agents 占其新活動約七成；貼文也將此描述為公司面向 AI coding 的轉變。數字提供了公司活動的輪廓，而其中最受注意的比例仍缺少方法說明，讀者宜把它視為有明確歸屬的估計。

<video controls playsinline crossorigin="anonymous" src="https://pub-75d4fe1e4e80421b9ecb1245a7ae0d1a.r2.dev/curated/local-curation-v2/local-curation-selected-selected-24-26-20261101-01a194ae/supabase-agent-growth/v1/media-0-r2Url.mp4"></video>

> Y Combinator 的 Lightcone 邀請 Supabase 執行長 Paul Copplestone，談 AI agents 與人人都能建構軟體的未來。

## 媒體內容

**Y Combinator 的 Lightcone 邀請 Supabase 執行長 Paul Copplestone，談 AI agents 與人人都能建構軟體的未來。**

**逐字稿**

- `00:00` 我真的很期待，未來能為許多人帶來什麼可能。（I'm genuinely excited about what the future could be for a lot of people.）
- `00:05` 我最喜歡 Supabase 的地方，是我看到這個平台帶動了很多創業活動。（The thing that I really love about Superbase is that I see a lot of entrepreneurship because of the platform.）
- `00:11` 我確實認為，未來全世界只要能使用 AI 的人，都會以某種形式成為創造者。（I certainly think that it'll be the case that everyone in the world with access to AI will become a builder of some sort.）
- `00:18` 你可以打造任何東西，也可以自行客製；想調整某個應用程式或介面時，就不必受制於別人。（You can build anything, you can customize it, you want to make tweaks to some app, some UI, then you don't have to be beholden to someone.）
- `00:26` 老實說，我對 2027 年相當期待。（I'm pretty pumped about 2027 actually.）
- `00:36` 歡迎回到《The Light Cone》的新一集。（Welcome back to another episode of The Light Cone.）
- `00:39` 今天邀請到 Supabase 共同創辦人暨執行長 Paul Copplestone。Supabase 是一款開源的 Postgres 後端，已成為 CloudCode 和 Codex 等工具預設使用的資料庫。（Today we're joined by Paul Copplestone, co-founder and CEO of Superbase, the open source Postgres backend that's become the default database inside tools like CloudCode and Codex.）
- `00:49` Supabase 現在有 1,300 萬名使用者，每週建立的資料庫超過 100 萬個。（Superbase now has 13 million users and it's spinning up over a million databases a week.）
- `00:55` Paul，歡迎來到《The Light Cone》。（Paul, welcome to The Light Cone.）
- `00:57` 謝謝你們邀請我。（Thanks for having me.）
- `00:58` 那我們先從這個說起。大家都知道，YC 會在第一天發一件 T 恤，上面寫著「做出人們想要的東西」。（So to start off, you know, famously YC gives you a t-shirt on the first day of YC that says make something people want.）
- `01:05` 但現在大家愈來愈意識到，應該是「做出代理程式想要的東西」。（But increasingly all of us are realizing it's make something agents want.）
- `01:09` 你們公司正是這個趨勢的最佳例子：新活動中大約有 70% 來自代理程式。（And your company really exemplifies that, you know, something like 70% of the new activity is from agents.）
- `01:17` 這不是很驚人嗎？（Isn't that crazy?）
- `01:18` 對，真的很誇張。（Yeah, it's wild.）
- `01:19` 真的很誇張。（It's wild.）
- `01:19` 我覺得尤其從今年的數據來看，轉折點就是使用情況大幅轉向代理程式。（I think like this year, especially what we've seen in terms of the numbers, the inflection is just a huge shift towards agents.）
- `01:28` 為了讓大家了解你們成長了多少，因為這成長幅度實在有點不可思議。（Just so we can understand just how much you guys have grown, because it's kind of mind-moggling.）
- `01:32` 那你們最關注哪些數字？去年這個時候的狀況如何，現在又到了什麼程度？（Yeah, like what are the numbers you care about and where were you like this time last year and where are you now?）
- `01:38` 我想，去年這個時候……（I think this time last year.）
- `01:40` 對，我們現在有 1,300 萬個註冊帳號。（So, yeah, we're 13 million signups now.）
- `01:43` 大概 12 個月前，可能是 300 萬左右吧。（Probably 12 months back, we would have been around three, perhaps, this year.）
- `01:49` 營收大概會成長到四倍。（Like revenue will grow 4x.）
- `01:52` 我們有……我想一下。（We've got, I'm trying to think.）
- `01:55` 你們現在每週大約會建立 100 萬個資料庫。（You've got like a million databases being created per week at the moment.）
- `01:58` 超過 100 萬個。（Over a million.）
- `01:59` 對，對，沒錯。（Yeah, yeah, yeah.）
- `02:00` 去年這個時候是多少？（What was it this time last year?）
- `02:01` 我想現在受管理的資料庫數量快接近 5,000 萬個；去年這個時候則是 800 萬個。（I think actually if databases under management now are approaching 50 million, and this time last year it was 8 million.）
- `02:08` 所以這真的是一個非常、非常大的轉折。（So, it's just a huge, huge inflection.）
- `02:12` 是什麼帶動了這波成長？（What's been driving that?）
- `02:13` 首先，軟體工程師們正放手建構。（First, people are building with abandon, software engineers.）
- `02:18` 第二，我認為有愈來愈多創造者開始加入。（Second, I think that there are a lot more builders coming online.）
- `02:23` 過去通常得有軟體工程背景的人才能做的事，現在非工程師也能在 Supabase 上實際打造產品。（So, what was traditionally someone with a software engineering background is now becoming possible for non-engineers to actually build things on top of Superbase.）
- `02:34` 所以，這是非常大的轉變。（So, this is a really big shift.）
- `02:36` 你們實際做了什麼來促成或鼓勵這種轉變？軟體工程師顯然還是會繼續選擇 Supabase，但你們最初是怎麼吸引代理程式轉過來的？（What have you guys actually done to facilitate or encourage this shift from, you know, obviously software engineers are going to keep choosing Superbase, but how do you get the agents to come over in the first place?）
- `02:49` 對，Supabase 大致經歷了三個階段。（Yeah, we largely have seen like three chapters in Superbase.）
- `02:53` 我們一開始是做儀表板，接著轉向 API，現在則是一家非常重視程式碼優先的公司。（We started as a dashboard company, then we went to an API company, and now we're very much a code-first company.）
- `03:00` 所以我們努力提供代理程式真正想用來建構產品的方式，也就是以程式碼為優先。（So, we try to have the modalities that the agents really want to build with, which is code-first.）
- `03:07` 它們大多時候真的很想使用 CLI。（They really want to use CLIs most of the time.）
- `03:10` 另一個因素是成為大型語言模型的預設選項。我認為我們也很受惠於時機：我們開始成為資料庫預設選擇的時間點恰到好處。（The other thing is just being chosen as a default in the LLMs, which I think we were a huge beneficiary of the timing of which we started to become a default choice for databases.）
- `03:24` 你覺得開源在其中發揮了多大的作用？（How much do you think being open-source played a role in it, too?）
- `03:27` 因為代理程式很喜歡開源的東西。（Because the agents love open-source things.）
- `03:29` 你知道，很難判斷如果沒有開源會如何，但我認為開源至關重要。（You know, it's hard to know the counterfactual, but I think it was critical.）
- `03:31` 我是說，我們做的所有東西都是開源的，而這似乎為我們帶來很大的好處。（I mean, everything that we do is open-source, and it seems to have been a huge benefit to us.）
- `03:38` 而且我們採用非常符合開源精神的做法。（And we do it in a very open-source-y way.）
- `03:41` 例如，我們會努力支援現有的工具。（Like, we try to support existing tools.）
- `03:43` 不只是 Supabase 自家的工具。（It's not just Superbase tools.）
- `03:45` 我們也支援 Postgres 這類在 Postgres 生態系中非常知名的工具，並協助維護它。（We support, like, Postgres is a very famous tool for the Postgres ecosystem, and we help to maintain that.）
- `03:54` 所以我們的影響力也擴展到了許多社群。（So, we kind of got sprawl across many communities.）
- `03:57` 我猜代理程式其實很喜歡開源，因為出了問題時，它們可以直接查看原始碼。（I would guess that the agents actually really like open-source, because when something goes wrong, it can just look at the source.）
- `04:03` 對。（Yeah.）
- `04:03` 對，我發現代理程式很喜歡有掌控力的感覺，而且它們很愛資料。（Yeah, I mean, I noticed the agents really like feeling powerful, and they love data.）
- `04:08` 沒有什麼比碰上死胡同更令人沮喪：你不知道發生了什麼，也無法修好問題。（And there's nothing more frustrating than hitting a brick wall, and then you don't know what's going on, and you can't fix it.）
- `04:14` 我認為這件事也會愈來愈重要，因為現在安全性非常重要，（I think it's going to be increasingly important as well, because now with, you know, security being so important,）
- `04:22` 我認為許多企業會想檢查原始碼，確認它是安全的。（I think a lot of the, say, enterprises are going to want to inspect the source code to know that it's secure.）
- `04:29` 如果程式碼是封閉的，企業大概就不會想採用這樣的供應商。（And if you've got closed-source code, then you probably won't want to adopt them as a vendor.）
- `04:34` 到了 2026 年，開發者仍然算是你們鎖定的核心使用者嗎？你們現在怎麼看這件事？（Is developer even still sort of the core user that you're going after, or, you know, how do you think about it now in 2026?）
- `04:42` 對，我認為我們正走向一個以創造者為主的世界；至少今年我們看到的趨勢是這樣。（Yeah, I think that the world where we're moving, and at least what we're seeing this year, is like kind of builders.）
- `04:50` 愈來愈多創造者開始加入，而且加入的人數多得驚人。（Builders are coming online, and it's like a crazy amount of people coming online.）
- `04:54` 今年很不可思議的一點是，通常當你看到漏斗頂端的註冊數正在加速成長時……（The crazy thing about this year is usually when you're like our top of funnel, our sign-ups are accelerating.）
- `05:01` 通常發生這種情況時，你會看到其他許多數字開始下滑，像是啟用率、轉換率。（And usually when this happens, you see a lot of the other numbers start to decline, activation, conversion.）
- `05:09` 但今年其實這些數字全都在往上走，這有點不可思議，（But actually this year, all of them are kind of going up and to the right, which is a bit insane,）
- `05:14` 就是因為模型已經變得很擅長打造東西。（just because the models are getting so good at building.）
- `05:18` 我們開始看到一些傳統上沒有軟體工程背景的人，也能來打造東西。（And we're starting to see people who traditionally wouldn't have a software engineering background able to come and build things.）
- `05:24` 這就是差別：所謂的建造者，可能並不是軟體工程師。（That's the distinction, is like builder, as in they might not be actually software engineers.）
- `05:30` 他們可能只是有個東西想做，然後就打開 Claude Code，（They might just be someone who needs to build a thing, and they're just, you know, popping open Claude Code,）
- `05:36` 結果後來發現，只靠檔案能做到的事情有限。（and then it turns out files only get you so far.）
- `05:39` 對，而且某方面來說，這群人累積了許多想法，卻一直無法說服軟體工程師幫忙實現，（Yeah, and in some ways, like this category of people have all these pent-up ideas that they could never convince a software engineer to like help them build,）
- `05:48` 現在他們不必再說服任何人了。（and now they don't have to convince anyone.）
- `05:50` 他們有一堆想法，正不斷把它們做出來。（They've got all these ideas that they're churning out.）
- `05:52` 軟體工程師仍占很大一部分，但建造者族群的成長速度相當快。（Software engineers still make up a huge portion, but the rate of the growth of the builder segment is pretty big.）
- `06:01` 而且我不知道這件事的上限在哪裡。（Also, like, I don't know where the ceiling is on this one.）
- `06:05` 我記得早期投資人曾經說，（Like, I remember our early investors were saying,）
- `06:09` 「啊，PLG，也就是產品導向成長，營收會在這個數字碰到天花板，（ah, PLG, product-led growth, it's going to tap out at this revenue,）
- `06:13` 你們就得開始進入這個市場區隔，（and you'll have to start moving into this segment of the market,）
- `06:16` 但目前看起來似乎沒有上限，（and there just appears to be no ceiling so far,）
- `06:20` 我也看不出它會在哪裡停下來。」（and I can't see where it stops.）
- `06:23` 我是說，這在兩年前或一年前基本上還是真的，（I mean, that was basically true like two years ago or one year ago,）
- `06:27` 但今年肯定不是這樣了。（but definitely not true this year.）
- `06:28` 對。（Yeah.）
- `06:29` 我上週末才剛好跟一個人聊過，（I was just talking to someone actually this last weekend,）
- `06:30` 他就是建造者這一類，像是一位金融科技創業者，（if it's the builder category, it's like a fintech founder,）
- `06:34` 剛以十億美元以上的價值出售了自己的公司，（just exited his company of like over a billion dollars,）
- `06:37` 他一直都算是接近產品領域，（and he's always been sort of product-adjacent,）
- `06:40` 例如大學時讀的是數學，（like studying math as an undergrad,）
- `06:42` 也勉強能拼出一些 Ruby 腳本，（and sort of like kind of could pull together some Ruby scripts,）
- `06:45` 但一直都需要工程師來打造軟體。（but like always needed an engineer to like build the software.）
- `06:48` 現在做副業專案時，他就自己打造需要的東西，（And now, side projects, he's just building his own stuff,）
- `06:51` 而且他具備打造金融科技公司的所有知識，（and he has all the knowledge from how to build a fintech company,）
- `06:54` 所以他真的能為自己的個人財務打造相當複雜的工具，（so he can actually build pretty sophisticated just like for his own personal finances,）
- `06:57` 例如資產負債表和追蹤軟體，（like balance sheets and tracking software,）
- `06:59` 也知道如何和銀行系統整合，（and knows how to like integrate in with banks,）
- `07:01` 而且他從頭開始完成所有整合，（and he's running all the integrations from scratch,）
- `07:03` 這種軟體甚至在兩年前都不可能有人做出來。（and it's just like the kind of software that would never have been built even two years ago.）
- `07:08` 這些人也是很理想的建造者，（These are the perfect type of builder as well,）
- `07:11` 因為像我這樣的開發者，（because like developers like me,）
- `07:13` 我想做的事情和點子都很偏向開發者需求，（I have very like developer-focused ideas and things that I want to build,）
- `07:17` 但還有這些領域專家，（but then you've got all these domain experts,）
- `07:19` 他們非常清楚自己所在的利基領域，（and they know exactly the niches of,）
- `07:22` 知道「喔，這是我這個領域還沒解決的問題」，（oh, this is an unsolved problem in my niche,）
- `07:24` 所以現在他們真的能直接深入那些利基領域，（and so they're actually able now to like dig right into those niches）
- `07:28` 不必再說服別人加入自己。（without having to convince someone else to join them.）
- `07:30` 我記得你們在紐約也談過這件事，對吧？（I think you guys were talking about this, weren't you, in NYC,）
- `07:33` 像是連你們招進梯次的對象輪廓都在改變。（like the profile shifting even from who you're bringing into the cohort.）
- `07:39` 我覺得如果看看大約從 2022 到 2025 年這段時期，（I think that if you look at the sort of era of what, 2022, 2025,）
- `07:44` 思維出現了很明顯的轉變，大概是這樣：（there's sort of this real shift thinking like,）
- `07:47` 「嗯，AI 就要來了，（well, AI is coming,）
- `07:48` 所以突然間，軟體工程能力成了核心，（and suddenly having software engineering as a core,）
- `07:53` 無論如何，你都需要一位技術共同創辦人。」（you need a technical co-founder no matter what.）
- `07:56` 那是當時在 YC 真正浮上檯面的重大觀念。（That was like a mega idea that really came to the fore at YC during that time period.）
- `08:02` 這個觀念一直多少有些道理，（It was always sort of true,）
- `08:03` 但那段時間又更加強調了這一點，（but like sort of doubled down on that,）
- `08:05` 而就在過去這一年，（and then really in the last year,）
- `08:08` 我們開始想：「其實，對，建造者也很重要。」（we sort of said, actually, yeah, builders.）
- `08:11` 我們開始看到有人能夠，（Like we're starting to see people who are able to like,）
- `08:14` 我是說，更難的其實是知道該打造什麼。（I mean, the much harder thing to do is to know what to build.）
- `08:18` 你知道，現在任何人多少都能隨時取得打造東西的能力，（You know, being able to build is something that anyone can sort of have on tap now,）
- `08:23` 這其實很棒。（and that's actually a really cool thing.）
- `08:25` 你能想像有多少東西原本根本不會被打造出來嗎？就像你剛才說的，（Like can you imagine all the things that never would have built exactly for what you said?）
- `08:28` 「喔，我們知道有人會買這個。」（It's like, oh, we know that people would buy this.）
- `08:31` 「我們知道這裡有個問題，（We know that there's a problem here,）
- `08:33` 但對於一些比較小眾的需求，（but at the margins,）
- `08:34` 那些人沒辦法說服工程師投入開發。」（those people couldn't convince an engineer to work on it.）
- `08:39` Paul，你能舉幾個例子嗎？（Do you have some examples, Paul,）
- `08:40` 例如大家用 Supabase 打造的應用，（of like apps that people have built on Supabase,）
- `08:44` 可能是只做給自己用的，（maybe just for themselves,）
- `08:46` 那種以前根本不會有人打造的應用？（that are the kinds of things that would have never been built before?）
- `08:49` 嗯，有個很酷的例子是在我們的研討會上發生的。（Well, one kind of cool example was at our conference.）
- `08:52` 我們在這裡舉辦了研討會，（We had the conference here,）
- `08:53` 會後，一位來自巴西的男士走來找我，（and afterwards this guy from Brazil came up to me,）
- `08:57` 他用手機打造了一整套計程車 App，（and he's built an entire taxi app from his phone,）
- `09:03` 有點像是他當地市場的小型 Uber。（and it's kind of like a little mini Uber for his local market.）
- `09:09` 我當時就想，他自己就是計程車司機。（And I just thought, he's a taxi driver himself.）
- `09:11` 我其實不知道他為什麼要做這個，（I don't actually know why he built it,）
- `09:13` 但他竟然能把它做出來，（but the fact that he could build it,）
- `09:14` 而且他來找我時非常感激，因為自己竟然能做到這件事。（and he came up extremely grateful and that he could do this.）
- `09:19` 而且他展現出的那種活力，（And also like with the type of energy,）
- `09:21` 他大概五十歲左右吧，（he was like 50 years old or something like that,）
- `09:25` 但突然開始打造東西時，他就像個精力充沛的青少年，（but he had the energy of a teenager building suddenly,）
- `09:28` 我覺得這很酷，（which I think is kind of cool,）
- `09:30` 因為現在這件事正逐漸發展到一個階段，（because now it's kind of getting to that stage）
- `09:32` 我覺得有點像是，（where I think it's a little bit,）
- `09:35` 大家對於……有太多不確定，（there's so much uncertainty around like,）
- `09:39` 未來的工作會變成什麼樣子？（what is the future of work going to look like?）
- `09:41` 但在建造者這個族群裡，（But in this category of builders,）
- `09:43` 人們對未來仍充滿期待。（there's that excitement of the future.）
- `09:45` 這正是我喜歡 Supabase 的地方。（And that's really what I love about Supabase.）
- `09:48` 它就像是個讓人們可以加入的平台，（It's like something that people can come in,）
- `09:50` 讓原本感到迷惘的人開始發掘這套技能，（and those who are uncertain now are discovering this skill set,）
- `09:53` 以及過去未曾有過的機會；以前，（and these opportunities where previously）
- `09:55` 他們可能只是藍領工作者，（they were just blue-collar workers,）
- `09:58` 就是這類背景的人。（these type of profile.）
- `09:59` 好，你最近一直在打造……（All right, so you've been building）
- `10:00` 一些你自己的個人軟體。對了，你最近在做什麼？這項工作才剛開始……（some of your own personal software recently. Yeah, can you talk about what you've been cooking up? It's just grown）
- `10:04` 對，這有點像是某件事的尾聲，但它只是從……開始沉迷之後發展出來的。（yeah it's sort of like the end of one stuff but it's just grown out of um getting really）
- `10:09` 大概六個月前，我其實就迷上了 OpenClaw。現在想起來，我都不好意思承認當時說過……（addicted to open claw actually like maybe six months ago now embarrassed i said it i said like）
- `10:14` 我說不會有任何 UI，一切都只會透過我的 OpenClaw 聊天來完成，但……（there was going to be no uis and it was all just going to be like chat through my open claw but）
- `10:18` 結果其實不是這樣。而且我有很長一段時間都堅持不用資料庫……（it turns out actually and i also was really determined not to use the database for a long）
- `10:22` 我只想把所有東西都放在 Markdown 裡。但後來發現，確實會到了一個階段……（time i just wanted everything to be in markdown um but yeah it turns out actually you hit a point）
- `10:26` 資料庫會派上用場，而且確實需要 UI，所以我最近一直在打造這套東西……（where like a database is useful and you do need ui and so i've just been building that over the last）
- `10:31` 尤其是最近幾週。我把它叫作「控制塔」，但它其實就是……（couple of weeks in particular and so it's like um i mean i call it control tower but it's just like）
- `10:36` 大致涵蓋我生活的各個部分。像是我有個 UI 可以整理所有電子郵件，讓我不用……（sort of every section of my life i know like i have like a ui to like triage all my email so i don't）
- `10:41` 一直查看收件匣；也有財務功能追蹤支出，健康功能會記錄體重……（need to read my inbox um finances tracking like spending health like both like tracks my weights）
- `10:48` 和運動，所有資料都集中在一個地方。但它神奇之處有時讓我覺得……（and my workouts and everything is all in like one place but i like the magic of it is sometimes it's）
- `10:54` 簡直不可思議。我想到自己這個 App 裡的財務功能……（mind-boggling thought actually is like i think about like the finance section of like my one app）
- `10:58` 我覺得比 Mint、Monarch 這些服務至少不遜色，甚至更好。（for myself is better i think is at least feature parity to mint or monarch or all of these things）
- `11:04` 但有些方面確實更好，因為它可以運用非常個人化的背景資訊，例如它能……（but in some ways actually better because you can start doing really personalized context like it can）
- `11:09` 查詢 GBrain 裡的名稱，判斷一筆交易是什麼，並找出那個……（figure out what a transaction is by looking up in my the name in my g-brain to figure out who that）
- `11:14` 人是誰。喔，我知道那是誰，然後正確分類。以前這可是整個……（person is oh like i know that's like and and categorize it correctly and that was like a whole）
- `11:19` 曾经有好几家创业公司专门做个人理财；现在你可以直接为自己打造这样的东西。（company like several startups just doing personal finance and now you can just like build it for yourself）
- `11:23` 而且我不需要它適用於其他人，也不需要在意別人的看法；它只是……（and i don't need it to work for anyone else or like have anyone else's opinion on it it's just）
- `11:28` 就是我的個人東西，真的挺棒的。我們也常看到這類情況，像是……（like kind of like my thing is like it's kind of awesome we see a lot of that one like where it's）
- `11:33` 財務和健康，基本上就是人們會想掌握自己資料的兩個領域，所以我們常看到……（finance and health uh basically the two like ones where you want your own data so we see a lot of）
- `11:40` 有人這麼做，把所有裝置同步到同一個資料庫，這本身就像一種神奇的能力；接著……（people doing that and syncing all the devices to to a single database is kind of a magic skill then）
- `11:46` 你可以提示它建立這些關聯；這些關聯真的很差。（you can like prompt it to like build these correlations across it's the correlations that are really bad）
- `11:51` 再以健康為例，沒錯，所有那些資料都在……（like again like if you just take the health example it's like yeah all of that data is in）
- `11:54` 像是我的 Supabase 資料庫；它也能存取我的行事曆，所以知道像是……（like my Supabase database but then it also has access to my calendar so it knows things like it's）
- `11:58` 它會說：「你的體重最近增加了，不過你那時在旅行，所以沒關係。」（like oh like your weight i know your weight went up recently but like you were traveling so that's okay）
- `12:03` 「下週再回到正軌就好。」它掌握了這些背景資訊，真的很……（like you can just like get back on track um next week and it just has like this context that's really）
- `12:09` 有價值。我也發現，開始使用個人代理後，我有點……（valuable i also found that as i started to use the personal agents like i'm getting a little bit）
- `12:14` 擔心自己把所有日常流程、各種事情和 CRM 都……（paranoid that i'm putting all of like all of the um like routines and everything and the crm is）
- `12:21` 綁在單一代理裡。所以我現在正慢慢把它抽離出來，這樣如果我……（becoming like um boxed into one agent and so now i'm slowly extracting it out into one so that if i）
- `12:28` 想在上面接上不同代理，就能使用任何代理。因此 CRM 是……（want to attach different agents on top then i know that like i can use any any agent so the crm is）
- `12:34` 另一個非常重要的部分。對，這就是你們這麼有價值的原因；實際上它就像是……（another really critical one yeah that's why you guys are so valuable is like actually like it's like the）
- `12:40` 它有點像正式紀錄庫……怎麼說，資料庫才是真正……（it's sort of like the store of record what's the the the database is actually the thing that's）
- `12:44` 有價值的東西。你會想擁有自己的資料庫，再在上面打造所有應用程式或……（valuable like you don't you want to own your own database and then build all the applications or）
- `12:49` 代理，而不是把這一切都放在別人的資料庫裡。這是個非常大膽的……（agents on top of it versus having that all in like someone else's database which is a totally wild）
- `12:54` 想法。回顧資料庫的歷史，以前的情況是……（idea like if you just think about the history of databases it used to be the case that like the）
- `12:59` 世界上只有相對少數、由大公司營運的大型資料庫，而我……（world had only a relatively small number of very large databases run by like large companies and i）
- `13:05` 記得 Supabase 剛起步時，你們有個想法：資料庫應該……（remember like when superbase got started you kind of had this idea that they should be like）
- `13:09` 讓每個人都能輕鬆建立資料庫。但當時大家幾乎不明白為什麼……（really easy for everyone to like make a database and almost like didn't make sense at the time why）
- `13:16` 會有那麼多人想這麼做，因為如果不會寫程式，資料庫又能拿來做什麼呢？（so many people would want to do that because unless you can write code what can you do with a database）
- `13:20` 而且會寫程式、能打造個人 CRM 的人其實不多。（and there's not just not that many people who can actually like write code and build a personal crm）
- `13:24` 在 AI 出現以前，對大多數人來說這種事太費工了。再舉一個例子……（like that like it's just like too much work for most people pre-ai like another example actually）
- `13:29` Supabase 對我很有用的另一個地方，是我有一個檔案上傳區……（like where super is really valuable for me is like the other section i have is just like a file upload）
- `13:33` 聽起來很簡單，但任何檔案我都可以從電子郵件轉寄過來，或直接丟進……（it sounds very simple but like any file i can sort of get forward via email or just like dump it in）
- `13:38` 這個 UI，接著由我的代理判斷檔案內容、它和我生活有什麼關聯，以及……（this ui and then like my agent like figures out what that is and how it's relevant to my life and）
- `13:44` 該怎麼處理。這些資料都存在 Supabase 裡；總的來說……（like what to do with it um but that's all being stored on superbase and so yeah in general it's just）
- `13:49` Supabase 最後會集中存放所有和我生活有關的資料，在同一個……（like superbase is actually going to end up having like all of the like data about my life in a single）
- `13:55` 地方。我以前從沒想過自己會需要個人資料庫……（place and like i'm i wouldn't yeah i would never have thought about wanting a personal database）
- `13:59` 大約一年前，因為那時完全說不通。但現在我覺得它其實是……（like a year ago because it wouldn't have made any sense but now i'd like that's actually like the）
- `14:04` 最有價值的東西。對，你們有相容 S3 的 Supabase Files，我所有東西……（most valuable thing yeah you have like an s3 compatible superbase files thing and all my stuff）
- `14:08` 都在裡面。喔，真的嗎？太好了。對，GBrain 預設就有。太好了，謝謝。你覺得這會是……（is in that oh really nice yeah yeah it's default in gbrain great thank you do you think this is the）
- `14:16` 未來嗎，Paul？基本上全世界每個人，不只是開發者，每個人都會有……（future paul where like basically everyone in the world not every developer every person will have）
- `14:22` 一個 Supabase 資料庫，存放他們生活中的資料，包括健康、財務和人際關係？（a superbase database that has stuff about their life in it their health their finances their relationships）
- `14:29` 對，我們很希望如此。我確實認為，將來全世界每個人……（yeah we'd love that i mean i i certainly think that it'll be the case that everyone in the world）
- `14:35` 只要能使用 AI，都會成為某種建造者。你可以打造任何東西，也可以自行客製……（with access to ai will become a builder of some sort like you can build anything you can customize it）
- `14:40` 想調整某個 App 或 UI 時，就不必受制於某個人……（you want to make tweaks to some app some ui then you don't have to be beholden to to someone）
- `14:45` 當然，我們認為自己是一家索引公司。剛進入 YC 時，我們只專注於……（of course like we think of ourselves as an index company we when we came into yc we just focused on）
- `14:52` YC 公司，希望拿下所有 YC 客戶。那是因為我們知道，當時我們只要……（yc companies we wanted to win all yc customers and like now that was because we knew that all we had）
- `15:00` 在企業創立的第一天就到場。使命沒有改變，只是涵蓋範圍……（to be there on day one when businesses were getting started the mission didn't change just the aperture）
- `15:05` 現在已經大幅增加了，隨著有更多開發者加入，我們知道必須為他們提供服務。（has like increased significantly now as more builders come online we know that we need to service them）
- `15:12` 這其實是另一個完全不同的問題，但也挺令人興奮的。規模大幅增加……（which is actually a whole different problem to solve but kind of an exciting one significantly）
- `15:18` 也就是說，大概是 1,000 萬倍。對，像是我們現在每週會推出一百萬個資料庫，但……（meaning like 10 million x yeah like so what we launch now a million databases every single week but）
- `15:26` 我是說，簡單算一下就知道。假設以 ChatGPT 為例，我記得他們說有 12 億……（i mean if you do some basic arithmetic let's say with chat gpt i think they said they've got 1.2 billion）
- `15:33` 每週活躍使用者。假設每個人每個月都想推出一個東西，那就是 12 億個……（weekly active users and let's say all of them want to launch something every month that's 1.2 billion）
- `15:41` 每月 12 億個資料庫。這就是我們正邁向的規模，也是我們需要建構架構來支援的規模……（databases a month and so that's like the scale that we're moving towards architectures that we）
- `15:46` 我們得具備能真正支援這種規模的架構；過去從來沒有……（need to have so that we can actually cater for for that scale which is something that has never had to）
- `15:53` 資料庫領域發生過這種事。用 Postgres 做得到嗎？還是你們得……（happen before on the database database realm can you even do that with postgres or you're going to have）
- `15:58` 自行打造資料庫引擎，才能擴展到每週新增 10 億個資料庫？我想……嗯，如果我們……（to build your own database engine to scale to 1 billion new databases per week i think yeah well if we）
- `16:05` 如果能跟 AWS 談到更好的條件，也許辦得到。但結果是，現在每個人都想要運算資源……（could negotiate better with aws then maybe we could but it turns out that uh everyone wants computers）
- `16:11` 但我也不確定，很多這類工作負載是否真的需要像法拉利那麼高性能的配置……（at the moment and and actually i like i don't know if you need like such a ferrari for a lot of these）
- `16:20` 工作負載。最近我們收購了一家公司 Terso，他們的架構相容於……（workloads and we made an acquisition recently terso they've got a architecture that's compatible with）
- `16:26` Postgres，其實也相容於 SQLite。我認為 SQLite 是很出色的資料庫。（postgres and actually it's compatible with sqlite as well i think sqlite's a phenomenal database）
- `16:32` 所以我們會提供一個級別，叫做 Supabase Spark，主要是給這些……（and so we'll provide this tier which we call super base spark which is basically for for these getting）
- `16:39` 剛起步的工作負載使用。概念一樣：你可以用相同的體驗開始，之後再擴展……（started workloads the idea will be the same you get started with the same experience you can scale up）
- `16:44` 到數 PB。我們的標語大概是「從原型到數 PB」。身為一家公司，我們必須確保……（to petabytes so our tagline is kind of prototype to petal petabytes and we as a company need to make）
- `16:51` 能為所有人提供服務。如果他們真的擴大規模、業務持續成長，那麼……（sure that we can provide for everyone and if they do scale up and their business keeps growing then）
- `16:57` 我們會確保他們有很好的使用體驗。對，這正是我好奇的事：你怎麼看……（we make sure that they have a great time yeah that's something i was curious about how you think）
- `17:01` 這件事？典型的軟體公司一開始可能是……（um about this actually is like the classic sort of software company you start with you know maybe）
- `17:07` YC 某一屆的早期新創，接著開始把目光放到企業市場。我……（early stage startups like in a yc batch and then you sort of have one eye towards the enterprise and i）
- `17:12` 覺得尤其是資料庫公司，在 AI 出現以前，大家的傳統想法是……（feel like especially if you're a database company like pre-ai the conventional wisdom as well like）
- `17:16` 你要成為 Oracle，所以得盡快打進企業市場，因為那裡……（you want to be oracle so you got to get to the enterprise as quickly as you can because that's where）
- `17:20` 才有最多的錢。於是你開始打造企業功能；你們現在轉向 SQLite，……（all the money is and so you start building out like enterprise features you sort of leaning into sqlite）
- `17:26` 看起來像是走向相反的方向。你怎麼看這件事？你們是不是……（is sort of going the opposite direction like how do you how do you think about it like are you sort of）
- `17:30` 同時顧兩邊？對，沒錯，我們必須兩邊都做，這真的非常困難。基本上……（looking both ways yeah yeah we're having to do both which is like incredibly difficult um basically）
- `17:36` 我們有兩款產品，分別支援兩端的需求：Multigres 可擴展到數 PB，另一款則……（we've got two products that cater on the two ends so Multigres scale up to petabytes and then）
- `17:41` Terso 則向下支援原型和 SQLite 類型的工作負載。要以這樣的成長速度做到這些……（terso scale down to like these prototypal and sqlite type workloads so trying to do this uh at the rate of）
- `17:49` 還得隨著成長聘用更多人；即使有 AI，這仍然成了、或一直都是一項真正的……（growth with like having to employ more people it's just even with ai is becoming or has been a real）
- `17:56` 挑戰，不過也是有趣的挑戰。你最近做了一項調查，當時有百分之十的……（challenge but a fun one so you ran a poll recently uh where people went from ten percent of your）
- `18:04` 工程師有百分之八十的程式碼是用程式編寫代理寫的，接著這個比例……（engineers were writing eighty percent of their code with uh the coding agents and then that number）
- `18:10` 最近在短短六個月內升到百分之六十。這是怎麼發生的？現在情況如何？（recently got up to sixty percent in a matter of six months like how did that happen what's happening）
- `18:17` 接下來會走向哪裡？我們內部沒有 AI 政策，只是讓……（like you know where is this going from here so we don't have an ai policy internally we just let）
- `18:23` 大家自由使用想用的工具，也讓他們取得所需工具……（people do whatever they whatever they want and we give them access to to whatever tools they they want）
- `18:29` 我想現在只是因為他們相信，模型能做得好得多……（to use and i think now it's just that they're convinced that the models can do so much better）
- `18:36` 不只能做得更好，還能做更多。因此採用速度非常驚人。是啊，他們正在……（better work and so much more so the adoption has been crazy and yeah the the things that they're）
- `18:43` 在內部打造的東西並非只是隨興用 AI 寫的小玩具，而是相當複雜的系統。隨著我們……（building internally are not just vibe coded type stuff they're pretty intense um and as we're like）
- `18:50` 轉向 AI 編碼的時代，我們進行的測試量，以及……（shifting into this uh like ai coded realm like just the amount of testing that we're doing and the）
- `18:56` 採用的測試工具都相當有幫助，能確保大家確實知道……（tools that we're adopting for testing has been pretty useful to make sure that they actually know that）
- `19:02` 最終成果會是好的。對，我們在 YC 各處也看得到這種情況，像是 YC 新創 Blacksmith……（the end result is going to be good yeah we're seeing that across yc the yc startups like uh blacksmith）
- `19:08` Depot、UbiCloud 等等。他們都專注在垂直領域，因為大家都在做 CI。對，還有測試數量……（depot ubicloud like they're all vertical because everyone's doing ci yeah and the number of tests that）
- `19:14` 你們的測試數量簡直爆表。用來審查的部分也是。老實說，這真的很驚人。（you have are just like through the roof for like review so that's pretty wild honestly to see was）
- `19:20` 這是否很大程度上是因為模型現在已經夠好了？對，人們……（it like a pretty like it's just the models are good enough now and yeah like it's just people）
- `19:23` 花了足夠時間嘗試之後，會發現「其實這挺好的」。人們需要被說服……（spend enough time where they're like oh actually this is quite good and people need to be convinced）
- `19:28` 尤其是工程師，我是說，年初時他們可能還不覺得這很好。（especially uh engineers like i mean they might not at the start of the year i've thought that it was）
- `19:35` 很好。模型確實變得更好了，而且大家也開始看見，原來你可以……（very good and the models have gotten better but also they're starting to see oh actually you can）
- `19:40` 用這些模型做出很棒的成果，以及 Navier–Stokes 方程相關的那些進展，還有這些……（achieve some great things with with these models and all the stuff with navier stokes and all these）
- `19:46` 種種事情，都在讓市場相信我們確實能在這裡開創新局。我想這就是……（stuff like convincing the market that actually yeah we can break new ground here so i think that's the）
- `19:53` 我們正邁向的世界。現在大家相信，未來就是這個方向。（world that we're moving towards and now people are convinced that this is the way that it's going to be）
- `19:57` 你看過 Supabase 的……（you've seen super based like）
- `20:00` 歷經三個階段：一開始有點像儀表板公司，在 YC 期間用一百天打造出來。（through three eras first kind of like a dashboard company um built in a hundred days during yc）
- `20:06` 接著是 API 公司，現在則有點像是代理程式——你知道，讓代理程式來打造東西的時代。（then the api company and then now it's you know sort of this agent you know make something agents）
- `20:13` ……這樣的時代。每個時代有沒有一兩件特別突出的事？（want sort of moment uh was there like one or two things like in each era that really jumped out）
- `20:19` 讓你覺得：「喔，這就是當時促成轉變的關鍵。」我想，那些轉變確實發生了。（you's like oh that was the thing that made us in that moment i think like those shifts happened）
- `20:24` 第一個轉變是，我想你是在說：為什麼會有一家資料庫公司？（so the first one actually yeah i think you're saying like why would a database um company exist）
- `20:30` 我們進入 YC 時，這個想法當時看起來真的非常逆勢。對，沒錯。（when we came into yc we actually seemed like such a contrarian idea at the time actually yeah yeah）
- `20:35` 對，我想我們看到，就連開發者使用資料庫都很吃力，所以那個儀表板……（yeah i think like we saw how hard it was to use a database even for developers and so that dashboard）
- `20:42` 一開始我們想：「不如在 Postgres 上做個看起來像 Airtable 的介面。」因為我其實……（first was like oh let's build a ui that looks like air table on top of postgres because i actually）
- `20:49` 也很喜歡 Airtable。我當時想，如果它底下其實只是個 Postgres 資料庫，不是很棒嗎？（loved air table as well i was like wouldn't it be cool if that was just a postgres database on the）
- `20:53` ……作為後端。這個轉變的契機，就是看到連軟體工程師都覺得難用。後來我們轉向 AI 時……（back end so um that one was just seeing that even software engineers struggled and then like when）
- `21:01` 我想我們在另一個 podcast 談過，我們轉向 AI API，是因為……（we moved to ai i think we talked about this on the other podcast the ai api um shift was because we）
- `21:08` 有人在整合我們的服務時說：「我們想啟動很多資料庫，需要一個 API……（had someone integrating with us and they were like oh we want to launch lots of databases we need an api）
- `21:14` ……來處理這些事。」那大概是 2021 年，結果這個決定剛好為……（to do all of this and that was like 2021 maybe and it turns out that was exactly the right move for）
- `21:21` 2024 年做了正確的準備，當時 Bolt、Lovable 等產品都開始建構在我們的平台上。（2024 when the likes of bolt and lovable and all of these people started building on top of us）
- `21:27` 到了今年，我發現真的沒人來儀表板了，沒有人、完全沒有人會去看……（then this year i just saw that actually no one's coming to the dashboard like no one no one visits）
- `21:35` ……儀表板了。那代理程式要怎麼在這裡建構？我就寫了一份產品……（dashboards anymore so um how are agents going to build in this one i just kind of put out a product）
- `21:42` ……備忘錄給團隊，說產品必須以程式碼為先；Supabase 必須轉向以程式碼為先。（memo to the team that said it has to be code first get native super base just has to shift to code first）
- `21:49` 所以只要某項功能存在於儀表板，就必須同步在程式碼中運作，也就是以程式碼管理基礎架構。（so if it exists on the dashboard it basically has to work in lockstep in code infrastructure as code）
- `21:55` 基本上，我們重新架構了許多 CLI 功能，讓所有東西都能在沙盒中透過程式碼運作。（essentially and we re-architected a lot of the cli and everything to work in sandboxes in code）
- `22:02` 你們可能覺得那已經是很久以前了，不過你們曾受 Parse 啟發嗎？它是另一家 YC 公司？對，對。（Were you guys maybe too far back, but were you ever inspired by Parse, another YC company? Yeah, yeah.）
- `22:07` 對，Parse 和 Firebase。我都很喜歡這兩家公司。這些浪潮很有意思，對吧？因為……（yeah parse and firebase i i liked both of those companies and it's funny these waves right because）
- `22:14` 它們都做後端；Firebase 被 Google 收購，Parse 被 Meta 收購。不過我想，某種程度上……（they did the back end and firebase acquired by google and parsed by meta but in some ways i think）
- `22:24` 它們替我們開了路，讓我們後來能真正建立一家正當的資料庫公司。（they like blazed the trail for us to come along and actually have a legitimate database business）
- `22:30` 因為在 2014 年，如果資料庫不用 RDS，簡直不可思議。接著它們……（because in 2014 it would have been ridiculous not to use rds for your for your database then they）
- `22:36` ……出現了；Mongo 也出現了，並開始轉向 Atlas。許多這類資料庫公司……（came along mongo came along mongo started moving to atlas and a lot of these database companies kind）
- `22:43` ……證明你不必只能使用三大超大規模雲端服務商之一；你其實也可以有一家……（of showed that you don't need to just use one of the three hyperscalers you can actually have a）
- `22:49` ……正當的資料庫公司。所以那個時機對我們至關重要。對，Parse 現在有點……（legitimate database company and um so that that timing was crucial for us yeah parse is sort of）
- `22:56` 被人遺忘了，但它其實是個打造得很好的產品。它推出時，我正好……（forgotten now but it was like actually a really well-built product they launched like just when i was）
- `23:00` ……第一次開發 iPhone App。改用一個不錯的 RESTful API，感覺相當方便。（building iphone apps for the first time and it was like quite nice to switch to like a nice restful api）
- `23:06` 這些轉變總是伴隨著一些轉折點，對吧？當時……（that's trying to deal with these shifts always happen with like inflection points right so at that）
- `23:11` 市場上發生了兩件事。不知怎麼地，MongoDB 說服了大家，讓大家相信 No……（point there were two things that happened in the market somehow mongo db convinced everyone that no）
- `23:17` ……SQL 是一種很棒的資料儲存方式；第二件事則是行動裝置。（sequel was supposed to be like an amazing uh way to store your data and um the second was mobile）
- `23:24` 所以我們很幸運，也趕上了其中幾波浪潮；而現在我們正處於……（and so you know we're fortunate that we had a couple of these waves as well and now we're right in the）
- `23:32` ……浪潮中心。對，這就是我想問的：你們怎麼看待……（thick of it and yeah i mean this is what i was asking about sort of like how you think about the）
- `23:35` 提早拓展企業市場？再往前看，Heroku 是第一個讓人覺得……（enterprise early because i think i mean even going further back this is like heroku was the first where）
- `23:40` 「先從最好的開發者體驗開始，再逐步擴大規模。」但……（it's like hey like just start with like the best developer experience and then scale up but it is）
- `23:45` 要靠人力把規模做大，其實可能相當困難。我想 Heroku……（actually can be quite hard to like scale up with people and i think like you know heroku to i don't）
- `23:51` ……似乎沒能完全跨過這道差距：當應用程式變大、需求增加時，要怎麼讓使用者繼續留在你這裡？（could quite bridge that gap um to how do you keep people on you like as the apps get bigger and and need）
- `23:57` ……需要更好的效能等等。歷來每家公司都得設法解決這件事，而我知道……（to be more performant etc etc but like historically every company's had to figure that out and like i know）
- `24:02` ……你們正朝這個方向努力，但老實說，或許不一定需要；如果光是……（you guys are looking that way but you might not have to like honestly if the the market for just）
- `24:07` ……持有、管理零到十這一塊市場——姑且這麼說——持續以這種速度擴大，它就會變得……（owning like i know call it zero to ten whatever like keeps expanding at this rate it's going to be）
- `24:13` ……非常龐大。對，我們想要全部。也許不一定非做不可，但我們肯定會做。還有……（huge yeah well we want it all yeah so uh we might not have to but um we'll definitely do it and like）
- `24:21` 向 Heroku 致敬，我想是他們讓 Postgres 普及起來。但當時 Postgres 還相當……（kudos to heroku i think they popularized postgres but at the time postgres was pretty uh it was still）
- `24:29` ……初期，擴展性也仍有一些限制。所以我們必須在……（pretty nascent and it's still got some scaling um limitations and so yeah we've had to wrap）
- `24:36` ……Postgres 外加上一些工具，讓它能不斷擴展。不過我想，更好的類比是……（postgres and some tooling that will allow it to scale indefinitely but i mean i guess a better analogy）
- `24:42` ……對你們來說，可能更像 AWS：它能及早吸引使用者，讓他們一路擴展。對，然後……（for you guys is more like aws was able to actually like get people early and they can scale yeah and）
- `24:47` 那麼，有哪些值得借鑑的經驗？你們怎麼確保自己能擴展……（so do yeah like what are the lessons maybe like how do you think about making sure you can scale）
- `24:52` ……到無限規模？我想其中一個經驗是……我聽過一個數據，可能記錯了……（infinitely the lesson i think that they i heard a stat and was telling me oh i might get it wrong so）
- `24:58` 請幫我查證：AWS 大約有 40% 的營收來自那些一開始就在 AWS 上創業的公司……（fact check me but something like 40 percent of aws's revenue comes from like startups that started）
- `25:05` ……後來又在上面擴大規模。這就是我們想服務的客群；我們知道……（on them and then scaled up and like that's the category that we want you know like we know that）
- `25:12` 要說服人們從一家資料庫供應商轉到另一家，幾乎是不可能的。所以我們……（to convince people to migrate to from one database provider to another is near impossible and so we）
- `25:19` 只想在第一天就陪在他們身邊，確保他們用得很愉快，接著再確保他們……（just want to be there on day one make sure that they have a great time and then make sure that they）
- `25:23` 真的不想離開。這跟 Stripe 的商業模式一樣；我的意思是，這基本上是最好的……（actually don't want to leave the same business model to stripe i mean it's like basically the best）
- `25:26` 如果做得到，這就是世上最好的商業模式。但你得從第一天就吸引他們，然後隨著我和……一起擴大規模（business model on earth if you can get it but you get them on day one and then as i scale with like）
- `25:30` 全球成長最快的公司一起一路擴大，是啊，持續不斷地做下去；只要這樣經營一個世代（the fastest growing companies in the world yeah infinitely and you just do that for a generation）
- `25:35` 你就會成為一家歷久不衰的企業。大概就是這樣。是啊，這對我們來說很難，因為……（and you become a generational business that's pretty much it yeah it's hard for us because）
- `25:40` 第一天的樣貌是什麼？這變化得很快。過去對我來說，第一天總是指 YC……（what does day one look like that's rapidly changing so in the past day one for me was always like yc）
- `25:47` 的客戶；現在第一天的對象變成了每個人都是建造者，那他們會用什麼？（customers and now day one is becoming like okay everyone's a builder what are they going to use）
- `25:53` 會用哪些方式？他們要怎麼選擇資料庫？這些都是棘手的問題。（what are the modalities what how are they going to choose their databases these are tricky questions）
- `25:59` YC 下一期現在開始接受申請。你心裡有創業家嗎？到 ycombinator.com（yc's next batch is now taking applications got a startup in you apply at ycombinator.com）
- `26:05` /apply 申請。永遠不嫌早，填寫申請表也能讓你的點子更上一層樓。好，回到……（slash apply it's never too early and filling out the app will level up your idea okay back to the）
- `26:12` 影片。這算是不同的客群。像是你剛開始時，當時根本沒有……（video it's kind of a different customer segment like like initially when you started like there was not）
- `26:18` 面向個人的資料庫市場。像是資料庫公司直接面向消費者……（an individual market for databases like the idea of a database company being a direct-to-consumer）
- `26:23` 這種商業模式聽起來簡直像語法錯誤。是啊。不過現在你們確實有兩種……（business would have just like sounded like a syntax error yes um but now you actually have two）
- `26:29` 客群：一種是早期新創公司，它們有這種強大的 Stripe 商業模式……（segments you have the like early stage companies that that that has this powerful straight business）
- `26:33` 但你們也直接賣給消費者，或許也賣給他們的代理程式。是，是，是。（model but you're also like selling directly to consumers or to their agents perhaps yes yes yes）
- `26:39` 而這些使用情境大概不會像新創公司那樣擴大，但他們可能會……（and those use cases presumably will not scale the way startups will but they might just like）
- `26:45` 一輩子都繼續使用你們，因為你們支援著那個……應用程式（continue to use you for like for the rest of their lives because you're powering the app that like）
- `26:49` 用來管理個人財務，或經營計程車公司的應用程式之類的。隨著他們的人生發展……（runs their personal finance yeah taxi cab company or something like that and as their lives grow and）
- `26:55` 他們累積的資訊，基本上就是我們自身成長的索引。你懂吧，所以他們只會……（they accumulate information that is basically an index of our our own growth you know so they just）
- `27:02` 儲存更多資料。人們收集的資料也越來越多。這類專業消費者市場，基本上是很好的成長……（store more people are collecting more data this kind of prosumer market is essentially a good growth）
- `27:08` 動力吧。我想問，那你會從這個角度來看個人代理程式的世界嗎？（factor for us i guess do you think about the personal agent world in that through that perspective then）
- `27:13` 如果程式設計代理程式需要 Supabase，這點很明確。那你會怎麼看下一個階段？（if sort of coding agents want super based that's very clear like do you think about the next phase）
- `27:18` 假設我們都有個人資料庫，接下來是否需要做些什麼來確保……（as being assuming we all have personal databases like do you need to do anything to make sure that）
- `27:24` 個人代理程式能輕鬆地跟你們互動？這有什麼不同嗎？還是基本上都一樣？（it's easy for personal agents to talk to you is that any different or is it basically the same thing）
- `27:28` 是啊，我現在非常看好個人代理程式。我助理離開一週後，我才確切了解……（yeah i'm very bullish now on personal agents after a week of my ea being away and me learning exactly what）
- `27:37` 他們能做些什麼。現在我簡直著迷於為個人代理程式打造產品這個想法……（they can do and now i'm just kind of obsessed with the idea of building for personal agents and）
- `27:43` 確實，我曾對公司說，我們是以程式碼為先。嗯，我們是在為這些人打造產品……（it's true that i i said to our company like we're code first um like we're building for humans that are）
- `27:50` 他們以程式碼為先。但其實我們是在為代理程式打造產品。很快，那些人就不會再……（doing code first but actually we're doing it for agents those humans pretty soon won't actually be）
- `27:55` 親自操作了。我的開發方式是使用 Dots。嗯，我會一直跟它通電話……（interacting so like the way i've been building is i'm using dots um i just sit on a phone call with it）
- `28:02` 跟它聊天，然後說：「喔，你可以做這些修改嗎？」而我用來……（all the time and i'm chatting to it and saying oh can you make these changes and my my kind of）
- `28:08` 確認自己有正確開發、實際試用產品的做法，就是完全不看程式碼（heuristic to make sure i'm building or dogfooding correctly is that i just don't look at the code）
- `28:14` 我也不讓自己去檢查架構，除非我想確認……（and i don't allow myself ever to check the architecture except when i want to check that）
- `28:19` 它確實有把東西正確地做出來。但在進行這些修改時，我只想跟它對話（it's actually building things correctly but when i'm making these changes i just want to talk to it）
- `28:23` 看看它能改些什麼。「我們之中的一員！我們之中的一員！」這也很瘋狂。它做的事非常驚人，讓我……（and see what it can change. One of us. One of us. It's crazy as well. It's doing some phenomenal stuff that I just）
- `28:32` 做做看它能改些什麼。它做的事也太驚人了，簡直像是兩年前科幻電影裡才會出現的情節。但現在我常常……（just it feels like something out of a sci-fi movie from like two years ago but now like i'm having so）
- `28:41` 遇到這種時刻，真的讓我震撼不已。如果六個月前把這些展示給別人看，他們……（many of these moments that i'm just mind-blowing if you had shown someone this six months ago they）
- `28:47` 一定會覺得這不可能。是啊，我前幾週參加了你們的 Supabase Select 大會……（would have just thought it was impossible yeah you i was at um your super based select conference）
- `28:51` 那場大會很棒，順帶一提。我當時突然想到一個有點瘋狂的點子（a couple of weeks ago which is awesome conference by the way and i had this like kind of crazy thought）
- `28:56` 我坐在那裡，聽你介紹 Supabase 推出的各種超棒新功能（i was sitting there and you're talking about all these awesome new features that super base）
- `29:00` 我心想，如果我用 Supabase 開發應用程式，或許我根本不會……（was putting out and i was like you know if i was building an app on super base maybe i wouldn't even）
- `29:08` 在意自己是否了解這些超棒的功能。我想把我的代理程式送到 Supabase……（care to understand all these awesome features myself i want to like send my agent to super base）
- `29:12` Select 大會去聽所有這些超棒的新功能，並找出如何把它們整合進去（select to like listen to all the awesome new features and figure out how to integrate them）
- `29:16` 我的程式碼庫。喔，這想法太酷了，真正的虛擬大會。我們該辦一場只為……（into my code base oh that's wild a truly virtual conference we should do that a conference just for）
- `29:22` 代理程式舉辦的大會。對，代理程式的大會。它們都能即時到場……（agents for agents yeah a conference for agents they all turn up live live they can like talk to each）
- `29:27` 即時互相交流、分享技巧。就像……即時交流。哇，還能搭起橋梁，用類似 AirDrop 的方式傳送……（other exchange tips i'm like you know live wow you can bridge it you can sort of airdrop and like）
- `29:33` Markdown 檔案給大家，但你得在現場、坐在觀眾席裡才能拿到（the markdown files for everyone but you have to be there in like the the audience to get it）
- `29:38` 我們就叫它 Artifactory。喔，這名字我滿喜歡的。我們之前聊過，還有一些……（we'll call it the artifactory oh man i quite like that we talked about before this like there's just）
- `29:46` 你們做了不少事情，確實能讓代理程式更喜歡使用你們，像是錯誤……（a bunch of things that you've been doing that like really make agents like you better like error）
- `29:51` 訊息之類的。那個關鍵洞見是什麼？還有沒有其他一些……（messages you know you know what was that key insight and like are there a bunch of other things that）
- `29:56` 你們正在做的事，一方面看起來很明顯，另一方面卻好像還沒人……（you're doing that kind of obvious on the one hand on the other hand like no）
- `30:00` 還沒有人在做。對，像是錯誤訊息。是啊，我昨晚在[原音不清]，而且我……（nobody's doing yet yeah so like the error messages yeah I was at a [unclear] last night and I'm）
- `30:05` 我很驚訝這件事以前沒有這麼明顯，不過我們確實深入改進了錯誤訊息，讓你……（surprised that this wasn't so obvious but we really dug into our error messages so that you）
- `30:12` 可以拿一個使用情境來說，例如「我想打造一個應用程式」，而通常像開發者……（can take a use case like oh I want to build an application and generally like developer）
- `30:17` 工具錯誤訊息大概是 500 之類的基本訊息，你只知道出了問題；但現在……（tool error messages at like 500 um something basic and you just know there's a problem but now）
- `30:23` 你其實是希望代理能自行修復，所以在錯誤訊息裡，（you actually want the agents to like remedy themselves so inside the error messages you）
- `30:28` 你會直接告訴它們如何修正錯誤，或去讀一些文件來解決問題。所以（are literally telling them how to fix this error or to go and read some docs to fix the error so）
- `30:35` 很多時候就是選定你的使用情境，然後不斷反覆改善自己的（a lot of it is just picking your use case and just trying to do these loops on improving your own）
- `30:41` 錯誤訊息，這樣你幾乎想做什麼都能一次完成。嗯，這說得通。（error messages so that you can one-shot basically anything that you want yeah that makes sense）
- `30:46` 基本上，如果代理正在使用你的產品，它就會遇到錯誤訊息。（basically you know if you're being used by an agent the agent will encounter an error message）
- `30:52` 過去人得自己去 Google 搜尋，還要做一堆事；但在這裡，你只要直接告訴它（in the past a human would have to go google that and do a bunch of stuff but here you can just say）
- `30:57` 哦，就像是，你知道，inode 用完了，所以你大概該去處理一下。對，因為有……（oh like you're just you know out of inodes so you should probably go do this yeah because there's）
- `31:03` 要讓代理選用你的產品，大致有兩個階段：第一是被模型選中，第二是（like two stages to winning the agents the first is being picked by the model and then the second is）
- `31:09` 如果它們卡住了，你不希望它們轉而改用別的產品。它們肯定總有一天會卡住，（like if they get stuck you don't want them to switch away so guaranteed they'll get stuck at some point）
- `31:16` 你只要提供工具讓它們能自行解決就好。這其實沒那麼複雜；它們已經很聰明，（you just want to give them the tools to to remedy so it's not actually that complicated they're smart）
- `31:22` 現在已經能自己弄懂很多事情，但你確實得重新設計許多（enough now that they can figure out a lot of stuff but you do have to re-engineer a lot of）
- `31:26` 以前只為人類和開發者設計的東西，讓它們也適用於代理。你們會測試自己的專案或產品（what previously was just for humans and developers for agents do you test your project your product）
- `31:33` 是否適合代理使用嗎？例如讓代理試著使用 Supabase，然後回報所有（for agents like do you have agents like try to use superbase and then like report all the places）
- `31:37` 它們遇到困難的地方？嗯，對，對，各種不同的模型都有。我們有一個評測網站，可以（where they had trouble yeah yeah yeah all the different models we've got an evals um website where）
- `31:43` 查看哪些模型建置成果最好，我們內部也有自己的評測套件。（we see which models are building the best and we've got our own eval um suite internally）
- `31:49` 我們也會評測哪些模型最擅長使用 PostgreSQL，這對整個業界來說很有意思。（we eval as well which ones are best just with postgres so that's interesting for the industry）
- `31:54` 並圍繞它建立技能，讓代理能採用這些技能，真正用 PostgreSQL 開發。對，所以（and build skills around it so that they can adopt them and actually develop with postgres so yeah it's）
- `32:01` 需要做很多測試。事實上，現在我們大部分的工程投入都放在（a lot of testing and in fact pretty much now a lot of our engineering effort is going into like）
- `32:06` 測試特定使用情境，而不是建置本身。我們想深入思考人們如何開發，（testing specific use cases rather than the building we want to think through how people are building）
- `32:13` 並據此建立測試套件。好，那你打造 Gbrain 時，是建在 Supabase 上的？嗯，可以談談（and build suites around that okay when you built gbrain you built it on top of superbase oh yeah talk）
- `32:19` 你當初為什麼決定把它建在 Supabase 上嗎？你作為使用者的體驗又是怎樣？（about like how did you decide to build it on top of superbase well how is it like for you to be a）
- `32:23` 對，作為使用者。嗯，我想 Gbrain 算是我寫過許多東西的提煉。我最初（yeah a user yeah i guess i mean gbrain was like a distillation of a bunch of stuff i wrote like i first）
- `32:30` 參與的是 Gary's List，那是一個代理式的新聞室；我當時得建立（worked on gary's list which was like agentic it was like an agentic newsroom and i had to build up）
- `32:36` 一套研究系統，用於 RAG、政策和論文；它會閱讀（like basically a research system for rag and for like policy and papers and it would like read）
- `32:43` 關於特定主題的每一篇新聞報導，再試著加以綜整。後來我把那套系統（every newspaper article about a given topic and then try to synthesize um and then i took that and）
- `32:50` 提煉成 OpenClaw 的開源檢索工具。當時的想法是：好，我以前把它做在（then distilled it into uh open source retrieval for open claw because the idea was like okay i had it）
- `32:57` Rails 裡，那有點像是代理的富士康工廠。我把每次 LLM 呼叫都視為（in rails and that was kind of like a foxconn factory for agents it's like i treated every llm call as）
- `33:05` 非常昂貴而且極其危險。後來我看到 OpenClaw，嗯，它有點像（very expensive and incredibly dangerous and then when i saw open claw it was this you know it's kind of）
- `33:11` Esalen；那是一種截然不同的 AI 協作方式，因為（like esalen it was just like a very different way for uh you know you to work with ai because then）
- `33:17` 你會覺得，AI 很聰明，也不是要傷害你，所以就該讓它去做事情，（it's like oh the ai smart uh it's not trying to hurt you and then you should just let it like do stuff）
- `33:23` 只要提供資料和能力給它就好。我因此意識到，一百萬個 token 其實是很（and you should just give it data and capabilities and so i recognized a million tokens is actually an）
- `33:30` 驚人的工作記憶。大多數人一次只能記住大約七加減二件事，（incredible working memory like most human beings only have like seven plus or minus two things that）
- `33:36` 但一百萬個 token 大致相當於三本《哈利波特》（they can keep in their head whereas like a million tokens is like basically uh like three harry potter）
- `33:42` 小說。不過即使如此，對代理來說還是有點受限；要在（books but then even that is like a little bit limiting for the agents like keeping the correct）
- `33:47` 任何時刻都讓正確的三本《哈利波特》小說留在上下文裡，確實很有挑戰。所以我覺得（three harry potter books in your context in any given time is a real challenge so it felt like there）
- `33:53` 公司大腦或個人資料之間，還需要一種中介。就我自己來說，我有五十萬個（was this thing in between for a company brain or like my personal stuff it's like i have half a million）
- `34:00` Markdown 檔案，記錄我曾有過的各種溝通，因此這個系統確實掌握了關於我的脈絡，（markdown files on like every communication i've ever had and so this thing really does have context）
- `34:06` 也知道我在乎的一切。但在任何時刻，代理可能只需要（on me and everything that i care about uh but then at any given moment like the agent it might need）
- `34:12` 兩頁左右的內容。這是檢索問題。所以到了那個階段，嗯，（like two pages or something it's it's a retrieval problem and so uh at that point you know at many）
- `34:19` 我想資料量大約是 30 到 40 GB，就需要 pgvector 和 PostgreSQL。你知道，圖形（i think it's like 30 40 gigabytes you need pg vector you need postgres you know you can do graph）
- `34:26` 資料庫在 SQL 裡很容易實作。所以 Gbrain 就是 RAG 檢索，再加上（databases very easily in sql and so that's what gbrain is it's like you know rag retrieval um plus）
- `34:34` 一個能從非結構化資料中建立結構的圖形資料庫，因此它有點像動態（like a graph database that creates like structure out of unstructured data and so it's like dynamic）
- `34:40` 結構描述，有點像我記憶中早期的 Palantir。對，接著（schemas like a little bit like what i remember uh palantir was back in the day yeah and then you know）
- `34:46` 整個構想就是，當有這種中介系統時，代理會強大得多；（the entire idea is that agents are much more powerful when um there's sort of this intermediate thing）
- `34:52` 代理只要說出自己在找什麼，系統就會遍歷圖形資料，（where the agent can just say like this is what i'm looking for and it'll traverse the graph it'll）
- `34:58` 執行向量搜尋，然後回來提供一份報告，（do all of the uh you know uh vector search and it'll come back and say like here here's a report）
- `35:03` 再把報告載入上下文。這就是 Gbrain。至於 Supabase，（and like load this into context and so that's what gbrain is and then superbase was just like）
- `35:08` 選擇就很直接：我需要代管的 PostgreSQL，而且它得能支援像是……（very straightforward it's like i need i need hosted postgres and i need it to be able to support like）
- `35:14` 很快就能弄出一個 50、100，甚至 300 GB 的資料庫或語料庫，效果真的很棒。（a 50 or 100 gig or 300 gigabyte you know database uh corpus really fast and uh it's been great like）
- `35:21` 自動擴縮運作得非常好。現在最有趣的是瀏覽器這部分。（you know the auto scaling works really really well and now the funniest thing is like with browser）
- `35:26` 我現在用一個側邊瀏覽器來操作瀏覽器，感覺就像：喔，對，OpenClaw 可以進去……（use like i use a side browser now for browser use and it's like oh yeah like openclock can go into）
- `35:32` 進入 Superbase，使用資料庫或你做的新 API，然後它就自己把事情處理好了。（superbase and you know use the database or the new apis you made and it just like managed it itself）
- `35:38` 它能自己管理。你之前需要提示它去弄清楚資料結構，例如圖資料結構嗎？（it can like self-manage were you having to prompt it to like figure out the data structures like graphs）
- `35:45` 或是 RAG 之類的？我是說，說來有趣，我記得以前會打開 Cloud Code……（or like rag or anything like that or uh i mean what's funny is like i remember going into cloud code）
- `35:50` 我就說：「用 EXA，把能找到的每篇論文下載下來並做說話者分離。」（and just saying like use EXA and download and diarize every paper you can find）
- `35:58` 所有能找到的 AI 研究論文。現在我可以用 AlphaSignal 之類的工具，但也可以叫它去找出每一篇……（in ai research um today i could use like alpha signal or something but it's like go and find every）
- `36:04` 關於 RAG、圖資料庫和文字檢索的研究，然後把內容整理成摘要。（piece of research about rag and graph databases and like you know text retrieval and then summarize it）
- `36:11` 摘要要符合我的使用情境：我要怎麼讓代理程式取得這些資料？接著它……（for like my use case which is like how do i help an agent get access to this stuff and then after it）
- `36:17` 做完後就像是說：「好，那我們就這樣做。」對了，我前幾天參加了一場晚餐聚會……（did that it's like oh okay well here's here's how we're gonna do it yeah i was at a dinner the other）
- `36:22` 主題是資料庫的未來。其中一個想法是，資料庫本質上是一種檢索……（night on like the future of databases and one idea was like databases essentially are like a retrieval）
- `36:28` 資料的機制。你可以建立索引，讓它用特定方式搜尋資料……（mechanism for data and you know you can put indexes so that they'll search across the data in certain）
- `36:33` 格式，例如圖資料結構，或、或 RAG。然後其中一個非常有趣的想法是……（formats, so a graph or, or RAG, and then one of them, which was super interesting, was just like）
- `36:38` 讓代理程式持續運作，為搜尋建立最合適的資料結構。比如說，如果你一直在搜尋……（putting an agent on a loop to create the perfect data structure for the search like if you're searching）
- `36:45` 這個資料集，而且每次要花 10 秒，那為什麼不讓代理程式……（this data set this many times and it's taking 10 seconds then why don't you just put an agent on）
- `36:51` 持續運作，建立一種新的索引，或找出最適合的索引，讓結果能在不到……（a loop to create a new type of index or like find the best index for returning that in less than a）
- `36:57` 一秒內返回。我是說，只要程式碼生成能力變得非常強，動態檢索顯然就會出現。（second i mean dynamic retrieval is pretty clearly going to happen the second you have really really）
- `37:02` 對，所以目前我把它用在 OpenClaw 上。我會使用正式環境……（smart code gen yeah so i mean for now i mean i use it for open claw so then uh i use my production）
- `37:09` 的實例，再從中取出執行追蹤，整理成一套評測資料集，接著我……（instance and then the traces from that um i extracted out like a eval data set and then i）
- `37:16` 另外有一個叫做 Gbrain Evals 的儲存庫，裡面有 40 種不同類別的特定……（have a separate um repo called gbrain evals and it's got 40 different categories of like specific）
- `37:22` 檢索類型和檢索效率指標，例如成本效率、延遲。評測有個很棒的地方是……（types of uh retrieval uh retrieval efficiency like cost efficiency latency and then uh the cool thing）
- `37:30` 你可以直接叫代理程式持續循環、自動研究並反覆執行……（about evals is then you can just tell the agent like loop you know just auto research and loop）
- `37:35` 只要有任何改動能提高這項評測的分數，就把它合進 master，並設為預設啟用。（and anything that uh improves your stats on this eval like ship it into master on by default）
- `37:42` 對，任何試過但沒成功的做法，就寫成 Markdown 檔，說明你認為失敗的原因……（yeah and anything that you tried that didn't work write a markdown file that you know explains why）
- `37:47` 然後存進 Gbrain Evals。我用 Cappy；Cappy 有一個……（you think it didn't work and then file it away in gbrain evals i use cappy there's a you know cappy）
- `37:52` Cappy 有個叫做 captain 的概念，有點像 Grokbot 的 bot。你可以給它……（has this concept of uh captains which is kind of like similar to grokbots bots and so you can just give）
- `37:57` 一段背景脈絡。我有一個 captain 一直在運作，負責想出新的類別；另外我還有……（it a context and so i have one that is always going that's like come up with new categories and i have）
- `38:03` 另一個一直運作的 captain，負責逐一檢查評測中的所有類別並自動……（another captain that's uh always going that's like go through all the categories in evals and auto）
- `38:09` 研究，每天都試著找出提升我們內部評測分數的方法。（research and every single day try to find a way to improve our scores on our own internal evals）
- `38:15` 它就一直這樣運作。這算是非常初階的 RSI，只針對某個……（and that's just going all the time it's a very very primitive uh version of rsi for like a particular）
- `38:22` 這個使用情境。不過我想，如果把抽象層次提高一級，你知道，也可以那麼做；你不是……（use case, but I guess if you like go up one level of abstraction, you know, you could do that, you're not）
- `38:28` 我的使用情境是 OpenClaw 之類的，但把抽象層次再往上提，這也可以泛用於……（for uh my use case which is from for open claw or something like it could just be for generically）
- `38:34` 任何人的檢索需求。唯一會改變的就是使用情境，以及……（like anyone's retrieval use case like the only thing that changes is like the use case and uh the）
- `38:40` 執行追蹤和資料集。你當然了解評測，也可以透過在軟體外包上一層這樣的框架來改進它……（traces and the data set you obviously know about evals and you can improve your software because you're）
- `38:46` 你覺得未來的開發者還需要……（like wrapping this framework around it like do you think that in the future builders will have to）
- `38:51` 真的了解這些東西嗎？也許不用。老實說，我覺得現在還非常早期……（actually know about these type of things maybe not i mean honestly i feel like we're so early that）
- `38:56` 我只是在摸索，也喜歡把成果開源，讓其他人……（you know i'm just messing around and you know i like doing it in open source and someone else you）
- `39:02` 看到後會想：「喔，這個我也能用。」我想我們……（know i hope someone looks at that and says like oh i can apply that you know like we're i think we're）
- `39:06` 現在真的正在摸索使用這些東西的基本方法。對，我記得……（literally coming up with the primitives on how to use this stuff right now yeah i mean i remember）
- `39:11` 今年稍早讀到 Steve Yeggie 談軟體工廠之類的內容……（earlier in the year you know reading about steve yeggie's uh software factories and things like that）
- `39:16` 當時還沒能完全弄懂，就像是：「喔，不，不，我覺得我現在……」（and then not being able to totally figure it out and it's like, oh no, no, I feel like now I've）
- `39:21` 當時沒能完全弄懂。現在我覺得自己至少拼湊出一套適合我的做法了。對，Boris Turny 來這裡時……（cobbled together something that works for me at least yeah yeah when we had boris turny here）
- `39:26` 他對未來寫程式的想像比較像是：你只要像跟朋友聊天一樣和 Claude 對話……（um his vision of the future of coding was more like you just talk to claude like a friend and you）
- `39:33` 不必了解評測或這些事情，Claude 就會自己弄清楚……（don't have to know about evals and all this all this stuff and like claude just like figures out）
- `39:39` 怎麼打造你心裡想要的東西。我有個網域名稱 openusd.dev，這是因為……（how to build the thing that you have in your mind i've got this domain name open usd.dev and it's）
- `39:45` 確實有一種叫 OpenUSD 的檔案格式，而且我會收集網域名稱。後來突然……（because there's actually a file format called open usd and i collect domain names and then suddenly）
- `39:50` Stripe、Visa 等公司都宣布了 OpenUSD，我就想，啊，這個網域該拿來……（stripe and visa and everyone announced open usd and i was like oh i better put this domain to）
- `39:56` 用了，但我一直沒時間把它用起來。（use now but i never had time to to use）
- `40:00` 所以我就和 The Dot 聊天，它就做出了一個開發者網站，裡面有……（it so i was chatting to the dot and it's like developed this like developer site with the）
- `40:05` 整個生態系等等。我先在電腦上和它聊天，接著在一天快結束時……（ecosystem and everything and i was just chatting to it on my computer and then like as i was winding）
- `40:12` 我躺下準備睡覺時，又用手機呼叫它。聽起來有點可疑，但我保證……（down my day i called it on my phone like as i'm getting to bed which sounds sus but i promise）
- `40:17` 只是跟它聊聊、用它寫寫程式，然後我就說，我不喜歡這個資訊架構。（just checking in just coding with it and i was like saying i don't like the information architecture）
- `40:23` 像是生態系統和使用情境之間的連結方式。你能提些建議嗎？它真的提了。（of how like the ecosystem links to the the use cases can you make some suggestions and it did）
- `40:30` 我說：「好，沒問題，照那些建議實作。」二十秒後它就說：「好，已經弄好了。」（and i said okay yeah implement them and then 20 seconds later it said oh yeah okay i've done it）
- `40:34` 它問我要不要重新整理，我重新整理了網站，內容寫得真的很好，而且所有東西都（do you want to refresh and i refreshed the site and it was really well written and everything was）
- `40:39` 串連起來了，SEO 之類的也都接好了。所以我沒有做那些傳統上（linking together and it's hooked up the seo type stuff and so i haven't done all the classic stuff）
- `40:47` 必須做的那些事，我只是一直跟它聊天。那真的讓我覺得像是（that i'd have to do traditionally i've just been chatting to it and it really felt like one of）
- `40:52` 某個我彷彿瞥見未來的時刻。我是說，你能做到這些，是因為你（those moments where i was i i sort of saw a glimpse of the future i mean you can do that because you）
- `40:58` 知道自己想打造什麼，關鍵就在這裡。對，我顯然有工程背景，（know what you want to build that's the thing yeah so like i obviously have a background in engineering）
- `41:03` 所以我大概知道怎麼下提示，但我正努力不多說，也盡量不把它引導（so i kind of know how to prompt it but i'm trying to not say anything i'm trying not to like point it）
- `41:11` 去 GitHub 之類的地方。我想像一般人、或是明年的人那樣寫程式，（towards github or anything like that and i'm trying to code like a like a normie or someone will do next）
- `41:17` 這樣我就能親自試用 Supabase，看看它到時候能不能（year so that i know it's basically so i can dog food um super base and know that oh is it going to）
- `41:24` 讓人用得順手。對，Boris 說「我只是想要它自動完成」還挺有意思的，（have a good time with super base in one year's time yeah it's funny for boris to say like oh i just）
- `41:30` 而且一旦這種做法普及，模型肯定就會了，字面上說就是（wanted to do it automatically and like certainly once it's into distribution like literally the model）
- `41:36` 把它學進權重裡，就能做到。但在那之前，它需要一些 Markdown 文件，或是你只要（has it you know in its weights it can do it but until then it needs like some markdown or so you just）
- `41:42` 給一點點提示——甚至不用很多提示，只要非常少量的提示，它就能（like like a lit like not even a lot of prompting like very small amounts of prompting it can just）
- `41:48` 做到。我們正進入社會上一個非常奇特的時刻。我覺得，我們好像……聽起來遞迴自我改進（RSI）（do it i we're entering this very strange moment in society i think we're like uh it sounds like rsi）
- `41:55` 真的已經來了，AI 研究彷彿正從 20% 走向 80% 的階段，研究就發生在（really is here and it's like going from like the 20 to 80 moment of like ai research is just happening）
- `42:02` 嗯，就在這些循環裡——像是 Claude Code、Codex，或其他類似工具裡。（um in sort of these inside these loops inside you know Claude Code or Codex or wherever it is）
- `42:08` 這些循環裡——不管是在 Cloud Code、Codex，還是其他地方。與此同時，社會上又沒有足夠多像你這樣的人，Paul，（and then simultaneous to that like society doesn't really have enough people like you paul）
- `42:14` 知道該打造什麼、也知道怎麼向它提問。所以這就像是不可阻擋的力量遇上不可撼動的（who like know what to build and how to ask it and so it's like unstoppable force meets immovable）
- `42:21` 物體。現在模型的能力正呈拋物線式暴增，而（object right now like the capabilities the models are like going parabolic and then the number of）
- `42:29` 真正懂得如何用它影響社會的人數，卻大致維持不變。（people who know how to actually have an impact on society with it is like more or less constant）
- `42:35` 對，而且人們也得願意對它感到興奮。我覺得這是另一個問題：很多人（yeah and want to be kind of excited by it i think that's the other thing i think a lot of people）
- `42:41` 變得疑神疑鬼，但我真的很期待未來能為許多人帶來什麼。（are getting paranoid but i'm genuinely excited about what the future could be for a lot of people a lot）
- `42:49` 我以前很多新創公司都專注於藍領工作者，以及我用科技服務的那些人，（of my previous startups were focused on like blue-collar workers and like people who i was wrapping tech）
- `42:55` 很多人一生大部分時間都得辛勤工作。你知道，而我真正（around a lot of people who just had to work a lot of their life you know and i the thing that i really）
- `43:03` 喜歡 Supabase 的地方是，我看到這個平台促成了很多創業。（love about super bases that it's um like i see a lot of entrepreneurship um because of the platform）
- `43:10` 所以我能想像這樣的未來：創業活動會大幅增加，（and so i can see this future where actually there is going to be so much more entrepreneurship）
- `43:16` 而且對很多人來說，那會是相當有成就感的生活方式。所以我很期待 2027 年，（and it's actually quite a fulfilling lifestyle for a lot of people so i'm pretty pumped about 2027）
- `43:23` 只要我們能維持這個步調，並避開幾場瘋狂的意外，那麼接下來應該會是（actually as long as we can keep this cadence up and avoid a few few crazy events then then it should be）
- `43:30` 很多人都能享受的一段旅程。我們正看到垂直 SaaS 創辦人（a fun ride for a lot of people we're seeing this moment where vertical sass founders actually are）
- `43:36` 募 A 輪有些吃力的情況。你知道，當公司還沒達到規模，例如營收約五（kind of struggling with raising series a's uh you know when you're sub scale at like you know five）
- `43:42` 到一千萬美元 ARR 時——這在以前已經算很高了，幾乎肯定能拿到 A 輪，（to ten mil arr even which like historically is a lot of arr like that's like a guaranteed series a）
- `43:47` 即使就在九到十二個月前也是如此。但現在嘛，我不知道，投資人似乎（even like nine or twelve months ago and today it's like uh i don't know people are kind of like）
- `43:54` 不太感興趣。至於橫向軟體和 AI 投資，看起來倒是完全（not really into it um for vertical like horizontal and ai investments like seems like it's uh totally）
- `44:01` 一路綠燈；但垂直 SaaS 公司真的很難募資。不過這種情況也正好發生在（green light but like vertical sass people are really struggling but it's also sort of happening）
- `44:06` 現在這個時點：只靠大約……就能做到一千萬到一千五百萬美元，甚至常常達到兩千五百萬、三千萬或五千萬美元，（right at the moment where you can get to 10 to 15 mil you know often 25 30 mil 50 mil with like）
- `44:13` 員工只要十到十五人。到了那個規模，公司就非常賺錢了。對，對，對，（10 or 15 people and so at that point like you're very profitable at that point yeah yeah yeah it was）
- `44:20` 如果有十五個人，每人創造兩百萬美元 ARR，利潤率是 50%，那你們每年就能賺一百萬（like if you got 15 people 2 million arr per head and with 50 margins you're all making a million）
- `44:26` 美元。我是說，對很多人來說，這是很棒的成果。對，與此同時，（million a year i mean that's an amazing outcome for for a lot of people yeah and simultaneous to that）
- `44:32` 我們常和一些來參加辦公時間的人聊。他們好不容易拿到夢寐以求的機會，卻因為（we just do a lot of office hours with people who do like they got the brass ring and then they're bummed）
- `44:37` 募不到 A 輪而感到沮喪。所以你知道，我在辦公時間常會跟他們說：（out that they can't raise the series a and so you know many of my office hours there are just like）
- `44:43` 「你將來回頭看，可能會覺得這反而是件好事。對，你不需要那筆錢。以前（you're probably going to look back on this as a blessing yeah you don't need the money like time was）
- `44:48` 你得募一億美元，才能做到年營收三千萬美元，（you had to raise like a hundred million dollars to get to like 30 million a year in revenue）
- `44:53` 因為當時非得雇用一大群人；現在你不必這麼做了。」對，對，創業圈確實有一種（because you just had to hire all these people and now you don't have to do that yeah yeah there's a）
- `44:57` 把募資當成徽章的現象。我一開始募到資金時也一樣，（real thing in startups like the badge i mean it was the same for me like to get funding at the start）
- `45:04` 感覺自己好像成就了什麼大事。但其實，（like feel felt like you know i was achieving something great but actually you know to actually）
- `45:10` 現在不募資，在我看來反而像是「這才是真正的成就」。所以我有點（not fundraise now would in my mind be like oh that's achieving something great so like i'm a little）
- `45:17` 羨慕那些走到這一步的公司。對，我也不知道，我是說……（bit envious of these companies that that are getting to that point yeah so i don't know i mean）
- `45:21` 這個世界變化非常快，不過你們 Supabase 在這些公司當中，真的一直都能夠（it's a super changing world but um your super base of all the companies has really been able to）
- `45:27` 乘著每一波浪潮向前。對於那些想效法你們做法的人，你有什麼建議嗎？（ride high through every single wave um do you have any thoughts for people as they try to emulate what）
- `45:33` 你們所做的事？有一件事讓我晚上能睡得安穩，那就是所謂的林迪效應。（you've done one thing that helps me sleep well at night is that it's kind of the lindy effect）
- `45:40` 資料庫已經存在 50 年了，我想它們再過 50 年也還會存在，而且（databases have been around for 50 years i'm i think they'll be around for another 50 years and）
- `45:45` 到了 AI 時代的盡頭，無論如何，我相當確定資料庫都會存在。所以（this is one that at the end of ai no matter what i'm pretty certain there'll be databases so pass）
- `45:52` 你可以從中自行解讀；你得選擇非常長久耐用的領域，而且如果（from that whatever you will like uh you got to choose categories that are very durable and if）
- `45:57` 你要押上自己的一生——我基本上就是這麼做的——就要選擇那個領域（you're going to bet your entire life which is basically what i'm doing you choose the category）
- `46:03` 你認為值得投入的。我想另一點是，事情變化得非常快，所以（that you feel is worth investing in i think the other one is like things are changing so far so）
- `46:09` 我們不會假裝 Supabase 什麼答案都有，只是努力確保自己一直（we don't try to have all the answers as super base but we just try to make sure that we're always）
- `46:15` 能快速調整。你知道，我觀察過、也研究過許多我最喜歡的（adapting the fastest and you know for me i've evaluated or like watched a lot of my favorite）
- `46:24` 開發者工具。它們往往一開始以開發者為重，接著逐漸往上發展，最後變得（dev tools um they kind of start with the developer focus and then they always move up and they become）
- `46:32` 非常企業化，也常因此停滯不前，失去那份熱情。從我們的角度來看，（very corporate and they kind of stagnate a lot and they lose that that love and from our point of view）
- `46:40` 至少以我個人的觀點來說，像 Stripe 這樣的公司，確實有一種特質，就像是有位（at least from my point of view companies like stripe for example they have this real like someone like）
- `46:46` 創辦人只在乎、幾乎全心關注新的建構方式。所以，如果你（a founder who just cares about like almost focusing on what the new ways of building are and so if you're）
- `46:54` 正在為下一波浪潮打造產品，就得時時留意未來接下來會發生什麼事，而這（like building for this next wave you just always need to be one eye on the future of what is next which）
- `47:01` 個未來如今很快就會到來，事情變化太快了。不過，保持高度適應力，並確保（is a very short timeline now things are moving so fast but um being super adaptable um and making）
- `47:08` 團隊有足夠餘裕迅速轉向，這正是我們（sure you've got capacity within your team to shift very fast that's the thing that we're that we're）
- `47:14` 接下來一年要專注的事。我想，你們在這方面有沒有學到什麼具體做法？（focusing on for the next year i think that you've like maybe any specific things you've learned there）
- `47:18` 例如，你們曾經歷過最初的 vibe coding 轉捩點，接著（like because you've had you know maybe you had the initial vibe coding inflection point and then）
- `47:22` Opus 4.8 的轉捩點，還有 code gen（程式碼生成）。那麼，當下一波浪潮來臨時——希望接下來還有很多波——（the Opus 4.8 inflection point and just code gen like when the next sort of wave hopefully next like many）
- `47:29` 當下一波轉捩點來臨時——希望還會有很多波——你會做些什麼不同的事來（inflection point hit for you but like are there things that you'll you'll do differently to be）
- `47:33` 讓自己準備得更充分？首先，內部試用自家產品是最重要的事之一。（better prepared for it well first of all like dogfooding is one of the most important things）
- `47:38` 至少從我們的角度來看是如此。我一直會用自家的工具試用這些產品，了解（at least from our um perspective so i'm always trying these tools with ours to know where are the）
- `47:44` 有哪些不足。沒有比自己用自家工具時卡住更好的回饋了。另一件事是保留餘裕，（gaps there's no better feedback than you getting stuck on your own tooling um and then having capacity）
- `47:51` 所以我們會嘗試和這個領域的重要夥伴合作。這種生態系合作真的（so we try to partner with with the the key players in the space and this ecosystem play has been really）
- `47:57` 很有幫助，因為他們會告訴我們正在打造什麼；同時我們也會盡量保留（helpful because they give us feedback on what they're building so that and we try to leave）
- `48:01` 一些團隊餘裕。這也很不容易，但這樣他們有想法時，我們（some capacity within the team which is also very difficult but um so that when they have ideas we）
- `48:07` 就能試著做做看。其實這些嘗試很多都不會成功，即使看起來我們（can we can give it a shot and not a lot of the bets actually win even when they seem like we're）
- `48:13` 正合作打造某個很酷的新東西也是如此；我們也無法預先知道，點子或許聽起來很棒，我們（partnering together to do some new cool thing we actually don't know they might sound cool and we）
- `48:19` 試了之後卻可能不太成功。但那些真正奏效的嘗試，最後會讓我們一起乘上（try them out and they they kind of flop but the ones that do work then end up meaning that we ride）
- `48:26` 這波很棒的浪潮。這真是很好的收尾。Paul，非常謝謝你，我們下次再見。（this awesome wave together that's a great note to end on paul thanks so much man we'll see you guys）
- `48:31` 下次見。（next time）

## 標籤

Supabase